Spoiler Discussion: Trader’s Leap

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155 comments to Spoiler Discussion: Trader’s Leap

  • Ed8r  says:

    Just finished the Prologue . . love it!

  • Nolaviz  says:

    This book was… Everything that I expected.

    And I so much want to know more! In what way exactly has Mar Tyn’s Luck changed? What did Shan do to become invisible? Do the norbears originally hail from Colemeno? Who will Tarona Rusk become?

    So many questions.
    So many stories waiting in this universe, now changed again.

    • Amy Jo  says:

      My brain thinks the answers to some of these are I. The short stories. Shan’s invisible fade comes from Lute. There was a short about the discovery of the norbears, was the planet named…

      And I thought Tarona embraced her final decision.

      Clearly I have supplemental reading to do!

      • Derek  says:

        As I recall, both Daav and Theo can do the same thing. It may not have anything to do with Lute/Moonhawk.

      • Tomji  says:

        Tarona is given the healing gift of forgetfulness. She realized she might be interested in doing some good. Apparently gave over her intention of self-immolation.

    • Margo Bratton  says:

      I also got the impression that Tarona decided to move to another plane of existence.

      • Tomji  says:

        Tarona is given the healing gift of forgetfulness. She realized she might be interested in doing some good. Apparently gave over her intention of self-immolation.

    • IreneHa  says:

      Shan can become invisible by thinking himself un-notable. He did this for Padi when she wished to be the trader that the merchant was paying attention to: ACCEPTING THE LANCE.

      • IreneHa  says:

        OOps that should be Alliance, not Accepting

  • Othin  says:

    Love all of it 🙂
    and just started rereading – this time at a lot slower pace.

    Definitely a satisfying solution for Lute and Moonhawk – and lots of new possibilities.

    I wander what the Ixins master trader Til Den will tell his Delm and uncle – and if Rabbit will lead a second exodus of Lucks and small talents away from Liad.

    • Ed8r  says:

      Good grief. You people must be able to read all day!

      • IreneHa  says:

        Retired. I did read all day on Friday. Then re-read for typos, and again today for just that last “louche” word.

      • Liz  says:

        Stayed up till 4am!

        • J. Spencer Love  says:

          So, does Weapons Hall still exist? Do the other Names (cf., Sintia, Old Universe, bereft of their polar opposites) retain yet any power at all? Is Weapons Lore still available if the right person needs it? I’m sure these aspects will be revealed in time, but one wonders what has left the Universe with Moonhawk and Lute. I thought Shan’s invisibility came from Weapons Lore. It’s interesting how the supposed deaths of characters are occasionally found to have other endings not shownin the original stories, like Clonak and (I think) Nadia, or in this case Tarona Rusk. Some else will happen with her later; I wonder when/if Sharon and Steve will tell us about it.

          • J. Spencer Love  says:

            (Should have been “Soldier Lore” rather than “Weapons Lore”; I expect readers to have known what I meant, but not knowing a way to edit, am just adding this footnote.)

        • Ex Libra’s  says:

          I also stayed up

  • H. Rasmussen  says:

    Made the mistake of starting this at 1:30 a.m. thinking…”I’ll just read a few pages before I get some sleep…”

    I got through 90% of the book before I finally fell asleep, woke up and read the last bit this morning.

    I’m not sure which pair I find cuter: Padi and Vanz, or Padi and Tekilia 😀

  • IreneHa  says:

    Can you folks help? Is Tekelia a man? I couldn’t find a gender pronoun until 200 pages in.

    • Amy Jo  says:

      I believe so, based on physical descriptions.

    • Ex Libris  says:

      I am sure that he is male. Reference the description when the Norbear shows his face to Padia. The description says it all

      • /amqueue  says:

        And see, I totally thought Tekilia was female.

        • Judith L. Parsley  says:

          Me also. Always female in my mind.

          • Ed8r  says:

            I wonder if it’s amusing to Sharon and/or Steve to read how well they wrote this character as genderless–or genderfluid?

  • Othin  says:

    Tekelia is a man 🙂 But I too first thought him to be a woman, properly on account of the warden bringing him cookies. 🙂

    • IreneHa  says:

      I’m beginning to think that Tekelia is a THEY.
      There is only one place with a gender pronoun, and that when meeting those two children.
      I suppose I will know when I get my Hard cover, and see if that ‘one’ gender pronoun disappears.

      • Kate Reynolds  says:

        Tekelia seems to be a THEY to me as well – once I started paying attention that was the pronoun I saw for them.

        • IreneHa  says:

          I found one more thing to throw into the gender ring.
          Tekelia is a Contralto.

          • Ed8r  says:

            Oooo……yes! That term is applied only to female voices. A male singing in the same range is called a countertenor/contratenor. Even though the range is the same, the “quality” of their voices is not. (Although I confess, I am not up with current thought regarding any gender-neutral or transgender singers.)

          • Gareth Griffiths  says:

            Surely Tekelia is a term like Healer or Dramliz not an individual name – so there may be multiple – I read ‘one or two each generation’ so they are a class of gifted . I think the text says Tekelia like it would Healer Lina (haven’t got kindle in front of me) but I took it as a class so ‘They’ would be right for Tekelia as a whole, but an invidivual could be referred to as Tekelia Fred. Culturally the title seems to be always given.

          • Karen2  says:

            I saw this and went ‘ah!’ also, Irene. The eye color changes are interesting and finding out their codes (for want of a better word) will be fun.

            Gareth below thinks Tekelia might be a term for Healer or Dramliz. The two a generation refers to ‘children of chaos’ or something similar iirc.

            Sorry to post this here. I didn’t see a reply section for Gareth’s post.

          • Sally Erickson  says:

            which makes Tekelia femail. In any event female names appear to be written ending with an “a”, and the same one if male with an “o”.

  • Susie sullivan  says:

    No one but Padi can touch Tekelia, anyone know why?

    • IreneHa  says:

      My guess is that they met in the Ambient & Padi is stronger than the average person who would get tossed into the Ambient if they touch Tekelia.

      • Ed8r  says:

        But surely they’re not in the Ambient when they meet at the reception for Dutiful Passage?

    • Paula Lieberman  says:

      Padi is “very bright” and has lots of energy–she saved her father twice with it, and her shields saved her from the attack by the woman who was trying to murder her. The implications are that the deleterious effects Tekelia had on people generally, weren’t of a level of strength necessary to disrupt Padi.

      [Note, I finished redaing the published version of Trader’s Leap this morning.]

  • Margo Bratton  says:

    Tekelia is a male, presumably human. I was first confused also, but Padi’s first encounter through the good graces of Lady Selph(sp.?) completely cleared up my confusion.
    I still don’t know who those people were in the prologue. I don’t recall seeing their names elsewhere in the book. Did I miss something?

    • Margo Bratton  says:

      Good grief, the time code on this post is really off. Perhaps it’s doing Greenwich time?

    • IreneHa  says:

      People in the prologue?
      Well I noticed that also. AND on my second reading I jotted the names down.
      I think the prologue was to introduce us to Civilization. It might have been better to have used names that we later meet but the only two that do repeat are Geritsi and Dosent. And only here is Dosent described as a sokyum = a cat. But that the sokyum can be ridden on by an 8 year old?

      • Rebecca  says:

        Maybe a cat on this planet means “tiger” or something appropriately large and ferocious.

        I was thrown off by Docent giving the children a ride as well.

  • Arnold Kalmanson  says:

    Just bought the E-arc yesterday. It cost me a night’s sleep, but I finished it early this morning, and it was worth it. I love how Padi has developed and grown into her power. This book is everything I expected and maybe more.

  • Liz Sommers  says:

    I have decided that I need to reread Alliance of Equals before I read this one. Am I mistaken?

    • Arnold Kalmanson  says:

      The action runs parallel to “Accepting the Lance” not “Alliance of Equals” so I would recommend reading that 1st.

      • Kate Reynolds  says:

        The action does pick up very much where Alliance leaves off. I reread it and found it helpful.

      • Kate Reynolds  says:

        Story picks up where Alliance leaves off, so I did a reread first and was glad of it.K

        • IreneHa  says:

          The action picks up where ALLIANCE leaves off, but parallels ACCEPTING THE LANCE.
          So you might want to read LANCE, as things are skimmed over in LEAP: ex: Boom.
          when the hole in the universe is closed.

    • /amqueue  says:

      Huh. If you’re the Liz Sommers I know, you’ll know this name. 😀

      I was very frustrated, as I *could*not*remember* the events in Alliance of Equals involving Tarona attacking Shan. And I can’t find my copy. ANd I can’t find anything on the web with a more involved synopsis than “This person did a thing.” And while I’ve spent money on other things over the past year, having purchased the hardcovers, I can’t bring myself to spend full price on the ebooks. And I know I’ve read it, because I remember all the stuff about Daav and Aelliana.

      AAAnyway. what I’m intrigued by is that Padi was so smooth about a) Father’s gone missing, and b) wait, who’s holding my hand? I think what Shan did was actually going invisible, and more tied to Lute than Soldier Lore. As opposed to Val Con, which seems to me to be “I’m not that interesting to look at” combined with a quality of stillness. The eye tracks motion, after all.

      /amq

  • Kate Reynolds  says:

    I’m convinced that Tekelia is only described as THEY. We get physical descriptions, the changeable but different colors of their eyes, for example, but nothing that marks gender to readers. Who knows what the gender spectrum might be in the Liaden Universe?

  • Derek  says:

    It was a wonderful and engrossing book. I was particularly struck by the way the strange abilities were taken for granted. Everybody was teleporting things and each other all over the place, among other things. I definitely thought myself to be a stranger in a strange land.

  • Othin  says:

    Has anyone knowlage what a sokyum is? I couldn’t find the word in a dictonary or online. And I certainly haven’t heard it before.

    • Ed8r  says:

      Sounds as if it’s a large cat. Maybe there will be a short-story forthcoming/?

      • IreneHa  says:

        Agreed. In the prologue: Dosent is a sokyum, with is described as a cat.
        But when we meet those 8 year old twins, it might be possible for one to ride on a sokyum.

  • Gareth Griffiths  says:

    Does anyone know the full crew numbers for Dutiful Passage. Is losing 8 crew a significant proportion? Seems to be I recall there being something like 8 pilots in Conflict of Honours so there’s probably a lot more crew given there must be other specialities (though how many crew needed for like more automated systems like hydroponics is unknown).

    • Tomji  says:

      I have never noticed any crew numbers and I am a bit embarrassed to admit how many I have reread ALL of the books.

      • Othin  says:

        @Crew number
        rom Conflict of Honors (https://liaden.fandom.com/wiki/Dutiful_Passage) – 48 crew in total, including the captain, when Priscilla signed on.

        My guess is that Dutiful Passage in Alliance of Equals and Traders Leap might have a slightly smaller number, so 8 persons leaving will be 1/6th to 1/5th crew. But the remaining crew will still be substantially more people than Passage carried during Plan B and the Battle of Lytaxin.

        @Sokyum – nice explanation, thanks Sharon

        • Paula Lieberman  says:

          And now Padi’s trading in the newly Dust-free territories. On the other hand, perhaps Dutiful Passage is going to accession some crew from the new allies. (That transshipping looks like it’s going to be fun “confusion to our enemies!”)

          And while Trader Isfelm has her own ship which is going to be equipped with pod adapters bought or leased from Padi, what about her brother, and any other newly found yos’Phelium descendants “cousins” and their tradeships’ crews?

          • Terrence Larsen  says:

            I still hope Padi will end up as Bechimo’s Trader.

          • Sasha  says:

            I think it would be more interesting for Padi to have her own circle of people, places and adventures and perhaps interact with Bechimo and Co. Padi is just becoming an important character in her own right and not just Shan’s daughter. She deserves to become a more major character. I don’t think that would happen to her as part of Theo’s crew.

          • Terrence Larsen  says:

            My thoughts are that L & M are up to the task.
            It could provide interesting interactions.
            Strong characters make good scenes.
            Either character could hold sway within their spheres of influence.
            I my imagination the interplay of personalities is ‘tasty’.
            Also just getting to and the meeting of Theo & Shan et al could take serious wordage.

  • Jan Schroeder  says:

    Somebody help my rotten memory, please? Which book features the events immediately preceeding this book with Padi using the bowl for protection? Many thanks.

    • Sasha  says:

      Padi and the bowl was in Alliance of Equals

      • Paula Lieberman  says:

        The bowl reminds me of a certain bowl in Uncharted Stars by Andre Norton, if my memory is accurate.

  • Ed8r  says:

    I barely finished in time and only squeaked out 2 whole TYOPS by 9 pm EST. Loved the whole book. The only “complaint” is the usual: it’s not long enough! I want to know so much more: about Tinsori Light–Tochol, about Disian and Geral Jethri, about the Lyre Institute, about the new cousins, about Uncle…yeah, I could go on and on.

    Here’s a question for you all . . .

    Does the prologue tell us about discovery of the Reavers? Are we convinced that Shan cut the strings, as he thinks, as opposed to the strings being cut by the remaking of the universe?

    • J. Spencer Love  says:

      From the timing, it seems pretty clear it’s when Shan cut Tarona Rusk’s strings, since the healing of the universe happens on camera/stage at a later time, long after the Reavers’ deaths.

    • Ed8r  says:

      I know it’s not discussion board protocol to reply to your own post, but I am already re-reading and I find that turning off that part of my brain that tries to stay alert for typos, as well as reading the prologue again, yields greater comprehension. 😉

  • IreneHa  says:

    Sharon says that “the prologue does a lot of work”
    [In reply to my email based on comments here.]
    We will just need to be patient people.

    • Ed8r  says:

      Since we don’;t know what you put in your email, it is not clear what her comment means either.

      • IreneHa  says:

        I mentioned that most of the names in the prologue appeared no where else, and it might have been better to …. Might as well cut and paste:

        On 9/7/20 10:48 AM, Irene wrote:
        One last thing. Prompted by a comment on the spoiler Discussion page.

        The people in the prologue. Most are never mentioned again.
        It is a nice little introduction to Civilization, but the only characters that we meet again are Geritsi and Dosent. And that Dosent is a sokyum, or a cat.

        Then again, in the scene where we meet the 8 year old twins, it appears that the sokyum is large enough to be ridden?

        If you don’t have plans for all of the people in the prologue, (Kawli, Aviz & Nersing), they could rename nameless, or be the characters we meet when we meet the 8 year old twins. You could also drop out the whole scene about the new tram line.

        Mon 9/7 6:42 PM
        No, I couldn’t drop the whole scene about the tram line or make all of the characters nameless. Prologues are not just about people you’ll see again. — the prologue does a lot of work, and even if I could change it at this point, I wouldn’t.

        Sharon

        • Ed8r  says:

          Thank you! That puts things in perspective.

  • Othin  says:

    At least now we know what became of Luck Mar Tyn eys’Omstahl and Healer Dyoli whom we had a glimpse of earlier. But I wonder if we are going to see Aazali again.

  • Othin  says:

    My back brain keeps imagining what Master Trader Til Dem will tell his Delm and how this will influence the rabbits politics.

    Knowing the Liaden council allowed one pogrom one becomes afraid what fear will do when it becomes know how easily DoI took so many healers and dramliza right out their halls.

    • Paula Lieberman  says:

      I suspect that it’s Tarona’s burden/expiation to have to wokr on remediation and reparations….

  • Tomji  says:

    I am thinking strategy.

    If pulling Tarona Rusk into Healspace was so effective, what are the other options for using Healspace to turn other enemies as well?

    Does Healspace work on non-organics? Is there an equivalent for them?

    Could that be a service offered at Tinsori Light?

    What does the Caressens Syndicate use for Healing?

    • Ed8r  says:

      I thought Healspace only worked on Tarona because she herself had been subverted by the DoI, so Shan was removing their “clutches” and reweaving what was left. But somewhere there is also an acknowledgement of those who are in their own selves evil, which is a whole different problem that cannot be healed.

      Also note that, it was only because Shan was secretly so strong that he was able to accomplish this, and that only because he was willing to give his life for hers.

      • Othin  says:

        Also Shan was very familiar with at least some part of that wound. I doubt that he could have done this if he hadn’t already healed Val Con and learned all he could from the Clutch while doing it.

        Another factor will be Soldiers Law. From Tanora’s description he used the knife not only like a healer but also like a soldier. Meaning his healing was more ruthless and strategic than a healer would and could normally act.

        Anthora might be the most powerful dramliza of her generation, but Liadens might not be accustomed to think in terms of “most powerful healer” of a generation. For them a “mere healer” is weaker than a dramliza.

        • Ed8r  says:

          Good points. I had the same thought about his experience with the Clutch in rebuilding Val Con as preparation for this healing.

        • Paula Lieberman  says:

          But Anthora’s not more powerful than Ren Zel, is she?

          (Thinking about that, she was the most powerful dramliz on Liad. Ren Zel was from an off-Liad clan.)

  • Ed8r  says:

    Fellow eARC readers, I need your help with something. Remember when Priscilla was working with Padi’s stylus and had to speak to it: “That’s enough.” It fell and struck the desk with a boom Then “Priscilla’s Sight jumped, golden lines spun, flared, coalesced. Off-center, she flung out a hand, glimpsed a black yawning hunger–heard another boom that shook her heart in her chest–
    And it was gone.”

    So, what caused the door to shut? Why was Priscilla’s order–spoken to the object Padi had persuaded to float–the catalyst that caused the “door” to shut. What was going on here? Was it the fact that she was evoking the power of Moonhawk that provoked this reaction? But then why was this interaction between Moonhawk and the power-that-caused-the-pen-to-float necessary? To close off the New Universe from the Old once and for all? Why?

    What did you think? Am I just being thick?

    • MB95687  says:

      I think that scene just happened to time with the closing of the door between the old universe and the new. I didn’t read it as related to Priscilla’s actions but rather that she felt the event happen at that time.

      • Ed8r  says:

        I thought of that, but does the timing work out that way?

    • IreneHa  says:

      I agree that the “Off-center” glimpse or the golden lines and the BOOM. Is when the hole between the universes at Tinsori light was shut. [ACCEPTING THE LANCE]

  • Sasha  says:

    I loved reading TL – and where the phrase is used.

    I am left wondering, what could possibly happen next? I couldn’t see any obvious hooks for something sinister. Did anyone see something I missed? With the demise of the DOI and the closing of the leak with the Old Universe, are there beings or other races we have not heard about that were already in the Bubble Universe before the Great Migration? Where did Clutch Turtles and Norbears come from? Were they already in the Bubble Universe before people came from the Old Universe?

    • Gareth Griffiths  says:

      I think that arc is definitely ended but lots of potential for short stories.
      However one wonders what Padi might find deeper in the dust, what Shan and Priscilla’s child might become, there’s still (probably) the Terran party, maybe potential for an YXSTRANG novel as contact made between the pathfinders and the ambassador, maybe even an Uncle novel though he probably would not like the publicity. Who knows (probably not even Sharon and Steve at the moment).

      • Sasha  says:

        I agree it is the end of an arc. I would say, ‘THE Arc(s)’. I think there really needs to be (a) major antagonist(s) for the series to continue chronologically into the future. Reading more stories is always very enjoyable, but they won’t have the same ‘bite’, unless something new and very dark and challenging come up. Hence, my questions about what else may be in the Universe we don’t know about. And – where the heck do Clutch Turtles and Norbears come from?

        • IreneHa  says:

          In my humble opinion…. Clutch Turtles and Norbears were residents of the new universe when “the tribes of men” arrived with their animals in cryo.
          There are planets described with creatures like Borag who “fits the nitch of dog”.
          There are other sentient races and life forms (i.e. The Tree) that exist in this universe, as when planets are found by scouts they have to look for sentient life.

          • Wolfram  says:

            The tree came from the old universe, see the ‘crystal’ books.

          • IreneHa  says:

            OOps. Yes Korval’s tree came from the old universe.

            There was that bear (like creature) that Nelerick/Beautiful didn’t kill in the park.
            Brain Freeze on the planet.

        • Paula Lieberman  says:

          There are several antagonists still around–
          o Hugglelans Galactic, which for whatever reasons turned dishonorable, and that evolution Theo was on the periphery of and extracted herself from being under a long-term employment contract with

          o the Authorities in the system that Theo went to flight school at, that planet’s Unbalanced, and Kara’s not perhaps estranged from her Clan situated there, but she’s one would think not welcome on her home planet–and what is behind all the “effervescence”| in its politics there? For that matter, Hugglelans plaretary there, Theo has standing and respect, it there an internal Hugglens war going on?

          o Then there are all the planets that Theo visited where there were infelicities.

          o More generally there is the competition between Terrans and Liadens, and the various factions of each–and now there are also Surebleak which has Terrans and Liadens mutuating into a new society and a new pole in Trade, there are the Loopers seeking new routes along with Korval, thereare Isfelm and the trading cartel she’s from, there’re Yuri and his associates, there are the Yxtrang still around, there are the Juntavas, there are the AIs with their legal status, there’s Tinsori Light, there is Korval resurgent with clan growth from births, from “lost” members returning, and from adopting-in or life-mating in….

          Korval is still oweed a child from Tiazan, also.

          For that matter, I’m old enough to remember SF/F where there the conflict was not against per se |an enemy” personified, but with the conflict being the challenge to accomplish somethng–quests stuff, seeking to find lost relatives or hidden planets, the rescue of civilizations from planets with unstable suns (e.g. A Dead God Dancing by Ann Maxwell). Sometimes there were minor villains who were part of the story, but not civilization spanning Destroyers necessarily.

          • drs  says:

            Child? Korval was owed a contract-marriage and child with Tiazan, but I think Miri inadvertently fills that: she is of Tiazan, and she’s permanently attached to Korval now.

            As for antagonists, there’s the Tanjalyre Institute.

          • Paula Lieberman  says:
    • Ed8r  says:

      Ah, yes, but we heard nothing further about the Lyre Institute.

      Is Uncle going to take that on as a pet project? Will they show up at Tinsori Light to look for Disian and for Tolly Jones?

      I thought the Lyre Institute was set up by Alliance of Equals, Gathering Edge, and Neogenesis to be the next “Big Bad” in this universe because they are an extension of Tanjalyre in the Old Universe.

      • Sasha  says:

        Good Thought! I like your idea.

      • Tomji  says:

        I agree with Ed8r. Lyre institute. The Caressens Syndicate. Tinsori Light. The hint that Joyita will have a body at some point. Still some backstory on Bechimo. Plenty left for those of us who don’t want this to ever end.

        • Sasha  says:

          Yes, and that little tidbit about the Korval Delm’s ring that Trader Isfelm had. “You’ll be wanting this back, cousin”.

          So, there may be exciting, dangerous things in the offing after all. I was quite sad when I thought all the major problems were sorted out.

          • MB95687  says:

            Wasn’t the ring related to the message he sent out when he reported himself lost? “Emergency repairs at Tinsori Light. Left my ring in earnest. The keeper’s a cantra-grubbing pirate, but the ship should hold air to Lytaxin. Send one of ours and eight cantra to redeem my pledge. Send them armed. In fact send two. . ..”

          • Ed8r  says:

            Response to MB95687

            He wrote that message, but he also was still at Tinsori Light himself, with the ring still on his finger. Or did the Light replicate his master pilot’s ring when it rebuilt his clone?

          • Brooke  says:

            Trader Isfelm’s ring is not the Delm’s ring or even a copy like Pat Rin’s, it is described as a Jump Pilot’s Cluster like the one Jon Dea’Court gave to Aelliana.

            What I suspect happened is that during the exile of the Lesser Talents one of the Korval pilots, out of yos’Phelium, decided to continue on exploring the area and was eventually trapped by Rostov’s Dust. From what is said of it in “Trader’s Leap” the Dust is particularly hazardous to Jump so if that pilot went too far he/she could easily not have been able to return to Liad but only to The Redlands. While yos’Phelium is not known for trading they at least have the basics, remember Chi’s run with Fer Gun in “Due Diligence”, and this would at least keep that pilot and their descendants in space.

          • Rebecca  says:

            The ring was Can Ith yos’Phelium’s Jump Pilot Cluster ring. (Read Ambient Conditions and Preferred Seating. He was a scout pilot who participated in bringing the colonists.

            Some folks here are confusing it also with Jen Sin yos’Phelium’s cluster which I assume remains on his hand at Tinsori Light.

        • Paula Lieberman  says:

          There are loose ends galore–Theo’s flight academy roommate and her connections, for example, in addition to all the other stuff (And where did the Fasholt establishment relocate itself to? What’s happened with Sintia with Moonhawk gone? Have the women who declare Priscilla legally dead died off or have their outlook reworked yet?

          The next two book are about Jethri, and those should be interesting….

          But back to Theo [and will she be designated as Chaotic/a Wild Talent at the Redlands??! ], she’s probably got quite a reputation in the Guild, at least–instrumental in effecting rescue and extraction of stranded personnel, participating in other rescues, Captain of a ship out of legend, rising from a Safe planet scholarly background to a Pilot of Korval, flying solo to reach Liad just before Korval’s eviction and flabbergashing departure with the removal of the entire Clanhouse and one giant tree from the planet, former Hugglelans employee an then apprentice courier pilot, Nexus of Chaos, oh, and star of glider flight training film, staying cool and mostly collected and sticking the emergency landing when a peaceful flight in a clear sky, suddenly turned into a ride through a hot fire zone. Oh, and having a Scout come in hot in a landing and ask for her by name, while still a student pilot….

          [Harrumph, the equivalent of American Media or worse British tabloids, concocting stories sold at spaceports…. ]

          • Paula Lieberman  says:

            That should have been “nexus of violence” not “nexus of chaos.” Memory defects…

    • Othin  says:

      It is my understanding that the Clutch and Norbears as well as some animals we have met are native to the Bubble Universe. The question if the Bubble contained already some humans – that evolved “parallel” to the ones fleeing the Old Universe will never be solved to anyone’s satisfaction.

      There are some hooks for something sinister – not all things need to be attributed to DoI. Just think of the lesser names and what we know so far of some of their meddling.

      Thinking back there are quite a few Liaden books and stories without a big bad in it or where the big bad only played a minor role. And I don’t believe a big bad really necessary.

      There are still a lot of interesting stories open. I wonder for example how Professor Waitley will fare as founder for the new university, what kind of help she can rope in and what hurdles she has to face.

      Also I would like to hear more of Lady Kareen and her new code – I expect that it will not only help Surebleakans and Liaden immigrants become one group but also play a role in making Korval safe.

      How is Korval to come by that big ship that tree has shown the delms?

      How will Anne react to her brother Syl Vors friend’s from Clan Justus? And how will Maelin and Wal Ter reakt to Surebleak and to Syl Vors new sister?

      What will come of the meeting with Ambassador Vepal?

      Why did Scout Commander Clonak ter’Meulen engineer the separation? And how is he dealing with that Liaden Council Rep?

      What is Lukens daughter up to? And does he have to sire another child if his daughter leafs Korval?

      There are lots of other open questions too, that seem interesting even with more normal people problems – if one wanders what the Liaden and what the Korval way will be to tackle them.

      So even with the this arc finshed there are more than enough interesting things to explore.

      • drs  says:

        > Why did Scout Commander Clonak ter’Meulen engineer the separation?

        What are you referring to?

        • Othin  says:

          In the short story “a Visit to a Galaxy Ballroom” Lina yo’Bingim gets accused by Administrative Arbiter of Scouts as’Barta to hinder his the mission to re-unite the Scouts. In the hearing before a Scout Commander she says to as’Barta: “ter’Meulen,… was head of pilot security for the Scouts—for the Liaden Scouts—for decades. He is no enemy of yours. If it is ter’Meulen who has authored this breach, then you must look for the fault in our own ranks.”

          I take it to mean, that ter’Meulen may have indeed engineered that schism within the Scouts or at least helped widen the internal differences enough for there to be that schism. And I also think that ter’Meuled did this in his melanti as head of pilot security for the Scouts.

          • Kathryn Sullivan  says:

            ter’Meulen’s suspicions and actions are covered in Carpe Dieum, I Dare and “Breath’s Duty”. (just finished a reread)

          • Kathryn Sullivan  says:

            I’m sure by the time he arrived on Surebleak he hadn’t changed.

  • Sasha  says:

    I think I misunderstood about the ring Trader Isfelm had. It was a Jump Ring, not a Delm’s Ring. However, I do not believe it is Jen Sin yos’Phelium’s ring. He left Tinsori Light with no ring on his finger and blew himself up. There doesn’t seem to be a mention of a ring on the clone of Jan Sin at the Light in ‘Neogenesis’. I haven’t found any connection between Isfelm and Tinsori Light, so I don’t think his ring is Jen Sin’s. I did find two tendril of something else that may be of interest in Neogenesis – Seignur Veeoni reports to Uncle (Yuri) ‘there is evidence that the universe may have ended and been respun … ‘ and sent Uncle records. She also writes, ‘Tinsori Light sends to you, under separate wrap, information that you may find instructive.’ Hmmm. Tantalizing.

    • Paula Lieberman  says:

      Way back in the early books the Jump Rings got mentioned as things worn by pilots to use as surety, that were no longer in style. One was given to Aelliana in Scout’s Progress which had been a family heirloom of the giver.

      That does make me wonder, what happened to the Jump Rings after pilots generally stopped wearing them [and why the tradition died out… maybe the creation of the Venturi Tables meant lower likelihood of stranding, and less relevance for needing a fortune in jewels as surety? Or, perhaps, interstellar commmerce prospered sufficiently for monetary systems to obviate such things> ]

  • Othin  says:

    There is also potential for trouble in Civilization. Healer Dyoli will be needed, and then there is the twin’s fraternal family connection. And this ominous voice Geritsi heard in the ambient.

    Another thing altogether is how the Liaden Council will react to the Scouts reports about DoI – distrust and even hate against Talents may be one effect. If there will be another purge the Rabbit is suited to smuggle Talents away from Liad.

    And then there is Eylot – and wouldn’t it be wonderful if Eylot is discovered to have been steered into folly? Maybe by the same someone that tried to get a foothold on Delgado a few years earlier?

    • Ed8r  says:

      So you assume the ominous voice is still present in this universe? I had made the assumption that it was part of Tarona’s attack of the Reavers/?

      • Othin  says:

        It is one of many unclear ominous things left open. And I don’t think this voice related to DoI.

    • Paula Lieberman  says:

      Eylot was the name I could not remember.
      Theo definitely has history with Eylot, and as a result of Eylot’s actions, Eylot’s got probably blacklisting from the Pilot’s Guild.

      I wonder if the Scouts or some within it, knew that Jen Sar Kiladi Daav yos’Phelium, Delm Korval gone on a VERY long absence from Liad and Clan, and that Theo was the half-brother of Val Con yos’Phelium, who was handed over to the DoI in hopes that Korval’s Luck would demolish the DoI?

      After all, it WAS a Scout who arranged for Theo’s matriculation at the flight academy on Eylot, out of all the flight academies in existence. (For that matter, why/how did Theo’s roommate wind up on Eylot studying to be a pilot [or was that in Saltation and I just don’t remember it, when she was from a many-ships owning Terran family?)

  • Julie Cherry  says:

    I kept telling myself that I would wait til the finished book is available. Anticipation is good! I failed. Bought the EArc yesterday. I’m really enjoying all the exploration of Padi’s talent and increasing my understanding of these gifts.

  • Stephanie  says:

    Have we seen aequitas (the stones? in the pouch that Shan brought to the meeting with Denolbi) before?

    • Brooke  says:

      We have in “Necessity’s Child” when Syl Vor and Kezzi/Anna use them in Syl Vor’s room as a game to start understanding each other. The scene is in Chapter 25 of the ebook version.

      • Terry L  says:

        Earliest mention of aequitas is in the non-canon novella Master Walk.
        It is also the first mention of the name deNobli.

  • Othin  says:

    On another thought at Padi’s 18th name day she got all those letters from family – I can’t remember her getting a congratulation from Aunt Kareen. That somehow doesn’t seem right. Or did I miss something?

    • Rebecca  says:

      There were others not mentioned as having sent name day greetings. After the long list it states “everyone”. I think we can just assume if it’s proper Kareen noted the occasion. It is after all tiring to list everyone. We know who they are. Or we can assume that she’s just not close to Kareen, Luken’s Daughters, Daav etc.

  • IreneHa  says:

    What I do, before the publication of a new Liaden Universe book, is to read everything over again. This includes short stories, and the books.
    However, if this is a new Jethrie book, I only need to read those two TRADER books.

  • Ramchip  says:

    Just finished Trader’s Leap after reading (and re-reading) the entire saga of Clan Korval, to date. Wow! Story arcs being completed and new ones started promise many more books to come.

  • Terry L  says:

    After my latest re-reading it seems obvious that Padi will fill the trader crew slot in Bechimo. Which of course means L&M will be ‘now for something completely
    different’. Will there be a healer in Bechimo’s crew ? What other crew slots are needed ?

    • Kathryn Sullivan  says:

      But Gordy is being sent as the Trader to the station.

    • Kathryn Sullivan  says:

      I thought Gordy had been sent to the Light, so he might be joining up with Theo.

  • Terry L  says:

    I’d like to see Anthora and Ren Zel visit Redalnds.

  • Splinter Universe · Shameless Self Promotion  says:

    […] reading Trader’s Leap and Want to Talk About It, there is a spoiler discussion in progress at this link.  This is a moderated venue, so your post will not appear immediately.  It will be made public […]

  • Shameless Self Promotion  says:

    […] reading Trader’s Leap and Want to Talk About It, there is a spoiler discussion in progress at this link.  This is a moderated venue, so your post will not appear immediately.  It will be made public […]

  • drs  says:

    I’m still reading. But

    ‘Father inclined his head, and produced a quarter-cantra, which he held out to the doorkeeper.
    “If it should be that the Hall’s custom does not permit of light refreshment, please do send for a tray from the restaurant you favor most, of those just there.”’

    Hasn’t a quarter cantra been a ton of money in earlier books?

    • Ed8r  says:

      Yes. I think that’s the point!

      • drs  says:

        But there’s a difference between “Here’s $100, get a tray of snacks” and “here’s $10,000, get a tray of snacks”, and I thought cantra were more at the latter level. Aelliana’s quarter share was 4 cantra. Though I recall values have been fluid.

        “Not a fortune, certainly, though she approached seven, counting her hoarded bonuses. It might well be enough to buy her free of a future where Ran Eld was delm.”

        “A visit to the ticketing office in mid-city had revealed that seven cantra would indeed buy passage to a Terran world, via tramp trader. If she wished to crew as part of her fare—and if the captain of the vessel agreed—she might reduce her cost to four cantra.”

        And a tin of tea is “a cantra on a glut-day”

        Ran Eld panics over a debt of 20 cantra.

        I dunno, I’m not sure value is consistent in the same book…

        • Ed8r  says:

          But isn’t there an implied message in the overage?

    • Rebecca  says:

      I believe (from previous reading) a Cantra is equivalent to 32,000 Terran bits or about an average person’s annual salary. So yes. A good chunk of cash.

  • Kathy Ferrando  says:

    I really enjoyed the meeting between Shan and Denobli, and the aequitas. I missed this somehow when I read the earc. Really enjoyig this!

    • Mary  says:

      I missed the significance of the aequitas (clearly important!). Backstory? Definition?

      • Rebecca  says:

        Syl Vor teaches Kezi the Aequitas in Necessity’s Child. They are used when the trade is in information rather than goods.

        • Mary  says:

          AHA! I missed that reference and need to go back to read that book.

  • Rebecca  says:

    I’m surprised no one has brought up the box of Er Thom’s journals. I thought that was a powerful bit emotionally. Not to mention the implications that he knew where Daav was and where the clan was heading.

  • drs  says:

    Seems clear to me that Tekelia is meant to be non-binary, without usual gender, or else gender concealed for some reason. While I came away with a “male” impression from the first introduction, that’s just social bias at work, because there’s nothing actually there:

    “But this was not the comforting, familiar face of one of her kin. This face was . . . not quite civilized. Certainly, it was not Liaden, not with that scowl showing openly. She had never seen them before, and truly, she hoped they never met. In fact, the longer she considered the face—round and tan; with fierce mismatched eyes, one gold, the other black, and straight-set angry mouth—the more agitated she became, until all at once, she pulled on her power and thrust the intruder away with all the strength in her.”

    Nothing specifically male there.

    Drama sources: Theo is officially of Korval. Members of the clan owe a child to the clan. This could be punted a few years, it could be not a big deal — “hey, Win Ton, let’s bang”. Or it could blow up. Will Korval still worry about the niceties of contract marriage on Surebleak, or just accept ‘gene donation’, like the Abh of Crest of the Stars? Will Theo balk at pregnancy? Will Theo think of cooking up a kid with Kara via Bechimo’s illegal medkit, or with the Uncle’s help? Is Kara a good enough pilot to be a yos’Phelium gene donor?

    And Val Con keep worrying about how small the clan is. It would help if clan members *had more than one child*.

    Will the new Daav and Aelliana reproduce again? Ael’s genemap is a horror, but if it suffices to make a pilot… Are the Uncle’s blanks actually capable of reproduction?

    • Rebecca  says:

      I was biased as I immediately got the impression that Takelia appearing to Padi through the ambient was akin to Ren Zel space walking to Anthora’s bedroom. It’s interesting on second reading. I initially thought he was a chimera with different eye colour but as it changes every scene so indeed could gender.

      Theo will do what Theo does. Whatever she wants.

      Grig Thomas and Jethri clearly reproduced. I still think the tree messing with Aelliana’s DNA after being reborn has fixed most worries regarding her “gene map being a comedy. “

    • Ariaflame  says:

      Given Sharon’s most recent comment on her blog, if any label might be applied to such a child of chaos as Tekelia, then my vote would be for ‘genderfluid’

      • Terrence Larsen  says:

        Ungendered ?

  • 25th Anniversary of Two Tales of Korval  says:

    […] slowly, or are saving the book as a reward, or a long day off — there is a spoiler discussion at this link.  This is a moderated area, so be aware that your comment will not appear immediately, though most […]

  • Susan B  says:

    One of my questions that I don’t see here is about Priscilla. Now that Moonhawk has left, is Priscilla still dramliza? Will she have to relearn her talents or how to access them? Or her limits?

    I came away with Tekelia being female, though I have only read the book once and that until the dawn so I may have missed something.

    I don’t really see Padi going to Bechimo as trader mostly because of politics. Laughing Cat is only contracted with Korval, while Padi is most definitely of Korval and having her be trader there might be a hindrance to trade. I see Padi eventually taking over for Shan on dutiful passage. Perhaps Shan will stay on planet to raise their child or concentrate on building the new Terella Fantrol (sp?), the new trade routes, or just other tho’delm or surebleak port work. I could see Shan being asked to stay on planet while Val Con and Miri go off elsewhere, to say, show their daughter to the Clutch, or deal with the Yxtrang.

    • drs  says:

      Korval has tons of trade ships, almost none of which have actual Korvals on them even as captain or trader, because there aren’t enough Korvals to go around. Ignoring issues of narrative spotlight, it would probably make more sense to graduate Padi and Gordi (apart from his Tinsori re-assignment) to those ships.

    • Othin  says:

      Even if Pady proceeds to Master Trader and some other yos’Galens follow in her footsteps – there is nothing that says a Clan may have only one working Master Trader. And I got the impression, that there have been times when Korval as well as other Trader Clans (like the rabit) have had the abundance of several Master Traders.

      Especially with the new routes and Korvals heavy expanses I see the need and opportunity for several Korval traders. And then there is the Trees proposition (vision) of a much bigger new “Passage” as lead trade vessel when Lizzy becomes a scout. So Korval has some 15 to 20 years to become prosperous enough to build that Passage. That challenge may be reason enough for several Traders leaping about the galaxy.

      • drs  says:

        The Tree had a vision of a bigger ship? That seems unusually practical for it. Where was that?

        Wait, Gordi’s not even Liaden let alone Korval, right? So not all the Traders are of the clan.

    • Julie Cherry  says:

      Just read the conversation Shan had with Lute about his and Moonhawk’s plans for their upcoming “rest”. It sounds to me like Priscilla will retain all her natural abilities, and I think they were strong ones or Moonhawk would not chosen her. She just won’t be inhabited by a Goddess any longer.

  • /amqueue  says:

    Could someone point me to the story about the origin of norbears, as was mentioned upstream? I thought I had everything, but I don’t recall that.

    /amq

    • Sasha  says:

      “Out of True” timeline 1119 poss.

      • Ed8r  says:

        Note that this is not really evidence of “origin,” per se, but merely of how norbears came to travel across this new Universe.

        • Sasha  says:

          I guess I wasn’t completely paying attention to the question. ‘Out of Time’ is the earliest story in the timeline where Norbears appear.

          • Ed8r  says:

            Which may actually be all that /amqueue was looking for; I just thought I’d clarify. 😉

          • Kathryn Sullivan  says:

            And that got me to go reread the two chapters in Mouse and Dragon which showed how not everyone appreciated norbears.

          • /amqueue  says:

            Ok, now I just have to go find it. At least I know what I’m looking for!
            Thank you!
            /amq

          • Sasha  says:

            It is in Liaden Constellation 3 (LUC III). I think I got it on Splinter before LUC III came out.

          • /amqueue  says:

            Can’t reply further donw in threading. Amazon tells me I purchased Constellation 3 in 2016. Of course, I’ve no clue where it is. Was it ever in a chapbook? Searching on here, I’m not finding it listed in one, just on Baen and in LUC3. Of course, I have all the chapbooks (and can’t remember half of them… but that, I expect, is due to quantity of stories and not completely my failed storage system.)
            /amq

    • Rebecca  says:

      It’s free to read online through Baen.

      https://www.baen.com/outoftrue

      • /amqueue  says:

        Thank you! I don’t recall it at all, so I think I’d never read it before. Now I have more questions, but that’s often the way with good series. 😀
        /amq

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